Selling expertise: workshops over courses

Joanna Wiebe (Joanna Wiebe) says she has made $15M+ in recent years from workshops, retainers and courses (May 2026)¹.

TL;DR

• Courses are much harder to sell since AI: buyers already have a tool “trained on billions of words”; one eight-figure training business lost 80% of revenue in a single month²³.
• Copy School sold ~10,000 seats at ~$2,500; Copyhackers is pivoting away from courses and added an AI coach agent trained on its 700 hours of training²³.
• Workshops: $20,000+ for two days of expertise delivered to a team, leading to repeat workshops and done-for-you/done-with-you work⁴.
• Sell them with a live diagnostic the prospect draws and grades themselves (red/yellow/green) — they diagnose their own need for you⁴⁵.
• Price by anchoring high (“anchor at a million”) and working down, not starting at zero and justifying up⁶.

Details

Expertise ladder: generalist → specialist → authority → “celebrity authority”. Moving up comes from repositioning how expertise is accessed (work taken, packaging, who sees you), not more skill. She once doubled a quote after hearing a peer charges $60,000/hour — and it was accepted¹⁷.

The diagnostic. Before the call ask the lead to have paper and red/yellow/green pencils. Draw a simple shape (Joanna’s: a triangle — list / offer / copy, three sub-components each, see List, offer, copy — fix them in that order), explain each point briefly, have them mark each. They end with their own handwriting showing reds — urgency they can’t argue with, and a demonstration of expertise no testimonial matches. Build yours from the 3–5 factors that decide whether results in your field are strong or broken; practise until you can draw it naturally; use it in sales calls and webinars⁴⁵⁸.

Land and expand. Before a workshop, study attendees’ LinkedIn histories (ex-Porsche, Google, Adobe…). Over-deliver — Joanna reinvested her first big workshop fee into workbooks, posters, pre-work, setup and help. Treat each engagement as an audition for the next three; connect with 3 attendees linked to target companies, don’t pitch⁸⁹¹⁰.

Pricing and ICP. “10x is easier than 2x” (Dan Sullivan): a 10× plan forces new packaging and pricing. Your network sets your sense of normal pricing. Qualify ICP by real budget and understanding of the value category; many failed closes are wrong leads, not bad pitches. Check your last proposal: did the number start at zero?^6111213

Closing. Senior buyers have been burned; evidence wins — case studies, exact numbers, process specificity (Proof placement and believable claims)¹².

Disagreements / caveats

• Joanna sells a mastermind for “authority figures” and still sells Copy School seats — she has a stake in both stories. The 80% figure is an unnamed business, one month.
• (Editor’s note, not from the source.) Course sales are not dead for everyone: lower-ticket digital products (ebooks, small courses) for consumers sell on outcomes, not information access — the AI-substitution argument is strongest for pure-information B2B training.

See also

• List, offer, copy — fix them in that order

Footnotes

1. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 00:00 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

2. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 01:33 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

3. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 03:04 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

4. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 03:58 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩² ↩³

5. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 05:28 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

6. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 11:12 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

7. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 01:33 — Joanna Wiebe ↩

8. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 08:35 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

9. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 10:08 — Joanna Wiebe ↩

10. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 11:12 — Joanna Wiebe ↩

11. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 12:48 — Joanna Wiebe ↩

12. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 15:26 — Joanna Wiebe ↩ ↩²

13. Steal This $15M Strategy For Courses, Workshops, and Retainers @ 17:00 — Joanna Wiebe ↩