---
title: Selling expertise — workshops over courses after AI
slug: selling-expertise-workshops-vs-courses
summary: Joanna Wiebe's case (2026) that AI has gutted course economics (one training business lost 80% of revenue in a month) and that experts should sell $20k+ workshops via a live drawn diagnostic, land-and-expand, and anchoring prices high.
domain: marketing
tags: [courses, workshops, digital-products, pricing, high-ticket, sales]
related: [list-offer-copy-hierarchy, proof-and-believable-claims, guarantees-and-anxiety-reducing-offers, pricing-by-close-rate, scaling-coaching-and-education-businesses]
sources: [yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8]
updated: 2026-10-24
---

# Selling expertise: workshops over courses

Joanna Wiebe ([[people/joanna-wiebe]]) says she has made $15M+ in recent years from workshops, retainers and courses (May 2026)[^1].

## TL;DR
- **Courses are much harder to sell since AI**: buyers already have a tool "trained on billions of words"; one eight-figure training business lost **80% of revenue in a single month**[^2][^3].
- Copy School sold ~10,000 seats at ~$2,500; Copyhackers is pivoting away from courses and added an AI coach agent trained on its 700 hours of training[^2][^3].
- **Workshops**: $20,000+ for two days of expertise delivered to a team, leading to repeat workshops and done-for-you/done-with-you work[^4].
- Sell them with a **live diagnostic** the prospect draws and grades themselves (red/yellow/green) — they diagnose their own need for you[^4][^5].
- Price by **anchoring high** ("anchor at a million") and working down, not starting at zero and justifying up[^6].

## Details
**Expertise ladder:** generalist → specialist → authority → "celebrity authority". Moving up comes from repositioning how expertise is *accessed* (work taken, packaging, who sees you), not more skill. She once doubled a quote after hearing a peer charges $60,000/hour — and it was accepted[^1][^7].

**The diagnostic.** Before the call ask the lead to have paper and red/yellow/green pencils. Draw a simple shape (Joanna's: a triangle — list / offer / copy, three sub-components each, see [[list-offer-copy-hierarchy]]), explain each point briefly, have them mark each. They end with their own handwriting showing reds — urgency they can't argue with, and a demonstration of expertise no testimonial matches. Build yours from the 3–5 factors that decide whether results in your field are strong or broken; practise until you can draw it naturally; use it in sales calls and webinars[^4][^5][^8].

**Land and expand.** Before a workshop, study attendees' LinkedIn histories (ex-Porsche, Google, Adobe…). Over-deliver — Joanna reinvested her first big workshop fee into workbooks, posters, pre-work, setup and help. Treat each engagement as an audition for the next three; connect with 3 attendees linked to target companies, don't pitch[^8][^9][^10].

**Pricing and ICP.** "10x is easier than 2x" (Dan Sullivan): a 10× plan forces new packaging and pricing. Your network sets your sense of normal pricing. Qualify ICP by real budget *and* understanding of the value category; many failed closes are wrong leads, not bad pitches. Check your last proposal: did the number start at zero?[^6][^11][^12][^13]

**Closing.** Senior buyers have been burned; evidence wins — case studies, exact numbers, process specificity ([[proof-and-believable-claims]])[^12].

## Disagreements / caveats
- Joanna sells a mastermind for "authority figures" and still sells Copy School seats — she has a stake in both stories. The 80% figure is an unnamed business, one month.
- (Editor's note, not from the source.) Course sales are not dead for everyone: lower-ticket digital products (ebooks, small courses) for consumers sell on outcomes, not information access — the AI-substitution argument is strongest for pure-information B2B training.

## See also
- [[list-offer-copy-hierarchy]]

[^1]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 00:00 — Joanna Wiebe
[^2]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 01:33 — Joanna Wiebe
[^3]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 03:04 — Joanna Wiebe
[^4]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 03:58 — Joanna Wiebe
[^5]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 05:28 — Joanna Wiebe
[^6]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 11:12 — Joanna Wiebe
[^7]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 01:33 — Joanna Wiebe
[^8]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 08:35 — Joanna Wiebe
[^9]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 10:08 — Joanna Wiebe
[^10]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 11:12 — Joanna Wiebe
[^11]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 12:48 — Joanna Wiebe
[^12]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 15:26 — Joanna Wiebe
[^13]: yt:AU8Sl1xXtY8 @ 17:00 — Joanna Wiebe